Comments on: What is bothering you about Cairngorm? http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152 Thoughts from a software developer Wed, 30 Nov 2011 09:13:06 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Scott http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152/comment-page-1#comment-14797 Scott Fri, 17 Dec 2010 18:49:30 +0000 http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152#comment-14797 Cairngorm is too bloated in my opinion and takes far too much boiler plate code to get it working. Having a central dispatcher to commands for all events limits you if you want to import child modules that also use Cairngorm. Forcing you to centralize everything limits the components you can add, and adds a bloated mess of code. I recently switched over to Swiz 1.0.0 which was just released. It is much much lighter weight and requires far less boilerplate. I'd highly recommend switching over. Cairngorm is too bloated in my opinion and takes far too much boiler plate code to get it working. Having a central dispatcher to commands for all events limits you if you want to import child modules that also use Cairngorm. Forcing you to centralize everything limits the components you can add, and adds a bloated mess of code.
I recently switched over to Swiz 1.0.0 which was just released. It is much much lighter weight and requires far less boilerplate. I’d highly recommend switching over.

]]> By: cairn-gone http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152/comment-page-1#comment-14573 cairn-gone Tue, 29 Jun 2010 05:16:36 +0000 http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152#comment-14573 the post is too old but hope I can catch with the newbies looking for better framework.. Cairngorm is SUCKS, if you're planning to learn this stupid framework better not to do it. Its a waste of time, the approach is unacceptable.. what the hell using a lot of singleton with binded data on it. If you like a miserable development then go for it. the post is too old but hope I can catch with the newbies looking for better framework.. Cairngorm is SUCKS, if you’re planning to learn this stupid framework better not to do it. Its a waste of time, the approach is unacceptable.. what the hell using a lot of singleton with binded data on it. If you like a miserable development then go for it.

]]> By: Dirk Stevens http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152/comment-page-1#comment-13705 Dirk Stevens Sat, 25 Oct 2008 21:26:00 +0000 http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152#comment-13705 Forget my previous comment - I just saw the link. Forget my previous comment – I just saw the link.

]]> By: Dirk Stevens http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152/comment-page-1#comment-13704 Dirk Stevens Sat, 25 Oct 2008 21:24:53 +0000 http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152#comment-13704 Interesting how that Cairngorm update Steven Promised us in August does not seem to be there? Or maybe I overlooked it when searching on "Cairngorm" on blogs.adobe.com ? Interesting how that Cairngorm update Steven Promised us in August does not seem to be there? Or maybe I overlooked it when searching on “Cairngorm” on blogs.adobe.com ?

]]> By: Lieven Cardoen http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152/comment-page-1#comment-13638 Lieven Cardoen Fri, 22 Aug 2008 08:42:56 +0000 http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152#comment-13638 Christophe, Have been flexing again and one of the biggest issues I have with Cairngorm or with the pattern is that my command is somehow slave of the view for which it is made. If a Command alters a model that is binded to a certain view, then the Commmand is actually changing the view. It doesn't seem right. If another part of the application would use the command, then this view would also be changed... The Command should really notify the view that triggered the Command... Are there articles on this because surely I'm not the first one with this issue... Yow, Lieven Cardoen Christophe,

Have been flexing again and one of the biggest issues I have with Cairngorm or with the pattern is that my command is somehow slave of the view for which it is made. If a Command alters a model that is binded to a certain view, then the Commmand is actually changing the view. It doesn’t seem right. If another part of the application would use the command, then this view would also be changed… The Command should really notify the view that triggered the Command…

Are there articles on this because surely I’m not the first one with this issue…

Yow, Lieven Cardoen

]]> By: Lieven Cardoen http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152/comment-page-1#comment-13631 Lieven Cardoen Sun, 17 Aug 2008 11:40:32 +0000 http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152#comment-13631 I just read <a href="http://weblogs.macromedia.com/swebster/archives/2006/08/why_i_think_you.html" rel="nofollow">http://weblogs.macromedia.com/swebster/archives/2006/08/why_i_think_you.html</a> and <a href="http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/cairngorm_pt1.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/cairngorm_pt1.html</a> from Steven and I think they summarize the whole discussion about Cairngorm. I think that if you start programming it's more interesting to program some design patterns your own instead of using frameworks like Cairngorm. In my opinion Cairngorm is often just overkill and used in projects where it really isn't necessary to be used. If you have customers and deadlines, then finding a balance between rapid development and good code (using for instance frameworks) is very important. If you are a good programmer and analist, then you need to be eager to learn design patterns, frameworks, other languages, ... but more important learn when to use them and when not to use them. @Herre: Thx for the sweet words on SminkedIn! You in Kortrijk Tuesday @ 12 o'clock? Belguim - Nigeria... We're still looking for a TV... Cheerio! I just read http://weblogs.macromedia.com/swebster/archives/2006/08/why_i_think_you.html and http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flex/articles/cairngorm_pt1.html from Steven and I think they summarize the whole discussion about Cairngorm. I think that if you start programming it’s more interesting to program some design patterns your own instead of using frameworks like Cairngorm. In my opinion Cairngorm is often just overkill and used in projects where it really isn’t necessary to be used. If you have customers and deadlines, then finding a balance between rapid development and good code (using for instance frameworks) is very important.

If you are a good programmer and analist, then you need to be eager to learn design patterns, frameworks, other languages, … but more important learn when to use them and when not to use them.

@Herre: Thx for the sweet words on SminkedIn! You in Kortrijk Tuesday @ 12 o’clock? Belguim – Nigeria… We’re still looking for a TV…

Cheerio!

]]> By: Arnoud http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152/comment-page-1#comment-13627 Arnoud Mon, 11 Aug 2008 23:41:40 +0000 http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152#comment-13627 Hi, i agree on most of the posts above. Therefor on the project we use right now we combined prana and um cairngorm. We wrote our own "bridge" wich basically extends som um cairngorm classes and we borrowed some nce concepts from them to create our own frontcontrolle/modulecontroller. I really like prana but the cairngorm extensions included are overly complex imho. to summarise: - use prana for creating commands/models/delegates/services/command-event mappings - no more service locator - no more modellocator - inject model/delegate into command constructor - inject service into delegate - populate frontcontroller via prana and make use of the event generators of um cairngorm as well as the callback mechanism to the views. Let prana manage the object ifecyles (no more crappy code for singletons whohooo!) all set! A nice clean approach :-) now we have the basic architecture running we have to thourougly test it, but it seems to work very nice! Christophe, we mailed before about prana. If the project goes on and the people i work for allow me i'll show you some code. Maybe i can then finally contribute to prana... keep up the good work! Hi, i agree on most of the posts above. Therefor on the project we use right now we combined prana and um cairngorm.
We wrote our own “bridge” wich basically extends som um cairngorm classes and we borrowed some nce concepts from them to create our own frontcontrolle/modulecontroller. I really like prana but the cairngorm extensions included are overly complex imho.

to summarise:
- use prana for creating commands/models/delegates/services/command-event mappings
- no more service locator
- no more modellocator
- inject model/delegate into command constructor
- inject service into delegate
- populate frontcontroller via prana
and make use of the event generators of um cairngorm as well as the callback mechanism to the views. Let prana manage the object ifecyles (no more crappy code for singletons whohooo!)

all set! A nice clean approach :-)

now we have the basic architecture running we have to thourougly test it, but it seems to work very nice!

Christophe, we mailed before about prana. If the project goes on and the people i work for allow me i’ll show you some code. Maybe i can then finally contribute to prana…

keep up the good work!

]]> By: Wael Jammal http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152/comment-page-1#comment-13625 Wael Jammal Mon, 11 Aug 2008 12:40:33 +0000 http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152#comment-13625 I found it to be good for most things, but I solved all my issues by extending it to create my own framework that I called CSK. Now it does everything I want it to do :) Why wait for someone else to do it :) Adobe provided us with a good slim framework but it's not for everyone and it might not be perfect but there is nothing stopping anyone from making it better for your needs. I found it to be good for most things, but I solved all my issues by extending it to create my own framework that I called CSK. Now it does everything I want it to do :)

Why wait for someone else to do it :) Adobe provided us with a good slim framework but it’s not for everyone and it might not be perfect but there is nothing stopping anyone from making it better for your needs.

]]> By: Christoph Atteneder http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152/comment-page-1#comment-13622 Christoph Atteneder Thu, 07 Aug 2008 12:22:44 +0000 http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152#comment-13622 Hi, I used both pureMVC and Cairngorm in multiple projects. It worked ok, but we decided to build our own layered architecture which fits much better our needs. Problems I have with Cairngorm: - Commands(Transaction Scripts). This approach works fine if your application doesn´t get to big. As soon as you have 20+ Event Command pairs automatically, especially in big teams, code is duplicated and spread out over multiple not well structured classes immediately. Singletons, ModelLocator classes and so on -> They are absolutly not the right patterns if you need to implement unit tests and have to be quality focused in your development. Especially if you have quite big rich clients a more domain driven approach is more suitable at least for our cases. A clean speration of your concerns (e.g. presentation layer, domain layer, infrastructure layer) also will help you a lot when developing in big teams (5+). We are currently working in a team of 12 Flex-Developers and this approach already saved us lot of time and troubles during development. Just my 2 cent on this :-) Hi,

I used both pureMVC and Cairngorm in multiple projects. It worked ok, but we decided to build our own layered architecture which fits much better our needs.
Problems I have with Cairngorm: – Commands(Transaction Scripts). This approach works fine if your application doesn´t get to big. As soon as you have 20+ Event Command pairs automatically, especially in big teams, code is duplicated and spread out over multiple not well structured classes immediately. Singletons, ModelLocator classes and so on -> They are absolutly not the right patterns if you need to implement unit tests and have to be quality focused in your development. Especially if you have quite big rich clients a more domain driven approach is more suitable at least for our cases. A clean speration of your concerns (e.g. presentation layer, domain layer, infrastructure layer) also will help you a lot when developing in big teams (5+). We are currently working in a team of 12 Flex-Developers and this approach already saved us lot of time and troubles during development. Just my 2 cent on this :-)

]]> By: Steven Webster http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152/comment-page-1#comment-13620 Steven Webster Wed, 06 Aug 2008 12:18:07 +0000 http://www.herrodius.com/blog/152#comment-13620 Christophe; here's the announce I promised.... :-) Be sure to follow the link to Alistair's blog as well. http://weblogs.macromedia.com/swebster/archives/2008/08/cairngorm_3_-_a.html Hopefully this will give some sense of what has been going on; we've been taking a step backwards so we can take many steps forward in collaboration with the community. We've been engaged with the guys at Universal Mind, with Eric's AIR extensions, and with numerous customers and partners who also want some mechanism by which they can engage more directly in the direction of Cairngorm, and opensource.adobe.com was the obvious platform upon which we could achieve this. We hear you. We really do Christophe; here’s the announce I promised…. :-) Be sure to follow the link to Alistair’s blog as well.

http://weblogs.macromedia.com/swebster/archives/2008/08/cairngorm_3_-_a.html

Hopefully this will give some sense of what has been going on; we’ve been taking a step backwards so we can take many steps forward in collaboration with the community. We’ve been engaged with the guys at Universal Mind, with Eric’s AIR extensions, and with numerous customers and partners who also want some mechanism by which they can engage more directly in the direction of Cairngorm, and opensource.adobe.com was the obvious platform upon which we could achieve this.

We hear you. We really do

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